Yaaay! Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. Same results. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. That focus drifts. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. Grow up, you aint all that! I would have recommended what you said you already tried, swapping extractors with one that is know to be good. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. Both are listed by Sig Sauer as micro-compacts, but the size difference is there, and it does make a difference. Occasional kabooms are a predictable outcome. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. Last year, Sig Sauer settled a class-action lawsuit that alleged design defects in the P320. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. But when you're running at the raggedy edge, when you're running well into or over +P -- as many people do with super fast powders and super heavy bullets, trying to chase down the holy grail of soft felt recoil -- when you're at that raggedy edge, it doesn't take a double-charge for a catastrophic failure. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. And precision swagged 125gr in .358. Theres a couple of possibilities. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? Got mine about 8 months ago. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. Fiocchi worked flawlessly, on the blazer had fte every fifth round or so. The Sig P320 XTen (bottom) has the same feel and general dimensions as the full-size 9mm P320 pistols (top). I think he said that they replaced the extractor pin or spring or something, but not the extractor itself. The tendency is for people to say "I've shot thousands of this load, and nothing has ever happened before." Tried different ammo? Ive putabout 2000 rounds through it no issue, but the other day I was at the range and had a case separation. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. So your fanboy perjorative falls not only flat but false. Add to Cart. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? Got a bad batch of WW ammo or These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. who sells them? Once SIG SAUER receives your P320 pistol, they will apply the upgrades, test it, and then return it to you free of charge. At this time I have no other parts to compare to the extractor pin or spring. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. More testing is needed to be 100 percent sure but looks good so far. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. MGW carries a vast array of replacement slides, barrels, magazines, sights, grip modules, pins, springs and other small parts for this handgun. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. Im looking into an aftermarket barrel that at least doesn't have that funnel cut nonsense, just a standard chamfer, for a little more support for my own peace of mind. Upon examination, the shell had a scratch on the rim. It was expensive. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. My 3 year old 320C started exhibiting fail to extract problems a while back. Your previous content has been restored. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. Thanks, Jim. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. In stock. I removed the extractor assembly and cleaned it thoroughly. Sometimes in front, straight back, just barely falling out and down, and even to the LEFT. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. True b. Tyler Freel Nuts and Bolts of the Sig-Sauer P320 XTen. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. OK, in answer to all of the above questions. This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. Zero in the affirmative. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. Still having the same exact Type 3 Malfs every other round. If the ammo is close enough to spec to operate in other firearms without issue, but the 320 has chambering issues causing setback and over pressure. If you think of anything else, post it and I will reply. But this 9F will fail to extract a fired case about every 3rd or 4th mag. Fine. Some have suggested that this could have been aggravated by the lack of a trigger safety, as most other. The first thing to note about the P320 XTen is that it is, in fact, a P320. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. posted March 06, 2017 05:33 PM. Nope. Sometimes it would do the same as the above but it was under the extractor like it should be. I have a 2015 born sc that has almost 2k rounds thru it & not one fte has occurred. It's a little disappointing because I was a huge fan. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Each time this gun misfires, and fires without the users intent, it is not only harming that individual, but these guns are a risk to anybody around, said Bob Zimmerman, a Philadelphia-based attorney with the firm Saltz Mongeluzzi & Bendesky, which is representing the plaintiffs in the latest filing, and has repeatedly sued the company for other alleged injuries. You cannot paste images directly. Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. is the manual safety a kit you add? He probably had a double until it was over. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. Not that the original was not good, but because it is a shell, they can do more. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. In this article, you will find the fix to these problems. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. The Sig Sauer P320 Extractor is a Factory OEM Sig Sauer part. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. SOOOO excited! You can post now and register later. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. Colors: SATIN ROSE | Matte TiCN. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. Sig made a subtle change to the length of the extractor spring, and the geometry of the extractor claw. I popped it in and headed down to the shooting range. rpm8300 there is no better. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. , 54 people all shooting themselves. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. Your previous content has been restored. Good videos, BTW very thorough; and unlike most youtube videos, it provides sensible, level-headed commentary from someone who actually shoots their pistol instead of trying to use it to prove how mall ninja they can be. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Tomac. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. All of my kits run fantastic, never a hiccup. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. Stinking Lawyers and quota cops. That seemed to help for a while. P365 / P365XL Striker Kit This is a factory Sig Sauer striker kit $57.39. Where is that defect now? Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! The most common problems with the SIG P320 X5 Legion are recoil spring issue, slide locking/FTE due to lack of lube, battery blowing out issues and outgassing issues. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. There were a lot of changes. Your link has been automatically embedded. Feed ramp was polished from use when it went out but looked freshly blued when it came back. 3. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. The standard P320 Compact magazine holds 15 rounds, but you can use higher-capacity magazines as well. Thats SIGs term for a recall. UPDATE: 7-6-16 So, received my P320 9F back from Sig Sauer. One hell of a conspiracy. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. Just recently got a 9mm Full Size kit and it's driving me nuts. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. New extractor? 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. They had it for 5 WEEKS! Also, N320/147g or N310/165g at125-130 pf are probably a good deal lower pressure than factory +P or +P+ loads, which should be safe to shoot in these guns. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. Availability: In Stock Price $39.99 Qty Add to Cart Save Compare Details Reviews Details All the factory replacement corrosion-resistant parts to replace your P320 extractor assembly. The problem with Sig is with their polymer pistols. If none of the new extractor parts make a difference, I'll have no choice but to send it back to Sig.thankfully I'm still within the one year warranty period allowed with CPO guns. One thing that I haven't see you state yet, when you LAMR do you go to slide lock and drop a round in the chamber, drop the slide, and load a full mag? Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. He was happy to find this post and that it confirmed that he felt the case support looked inadequate. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. Pack up a complete gun, including one of my FCUs so now I'm down to one. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? Problem persisted. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. I brought a box of fiocchi and a box of blazer ammo. It was a weakend case, and the gun was fine after I repleced the extractor with a spare I had. (unless theyre SWAT or something). The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. fabes_ 6 yr. ago Not sure if the FTE is related to the feeding problems people see with certain ammo, but check out this link, it MAY be what you need to see. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. Fired case is extracted about a quarter of an inch. Looking for possible tips before she starts to get frustrated. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. This is a well known vulnerability of the P320 FCU, and is perhaps a reason SIG should have engineered the system with a replaceable ejector. If the Ejector is determined to be worn or broken, Sig Sauer recommends it be repaired by: a. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? I have several thousand of this ammo on hand, and if I were to need to use to defend myself or my family, the gun should handle it. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. A forum community dedicated to SIG Sauer Pistols and SIG Sauer Rifles owners and enthusiasts. That was me. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! ALL OF THEM. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. A full-length external extractor. I call Sig hoping to send it in for repairs, they told me to try different ammo. Has anyone else had issues? I could just purchase another 9F kit and keep the malfunctioning kit for parts or send it in for repair and sell it when it gets back to recoup some of the costs. Do you have an FFL closer to you than the FedEx hub? Also make sure you greased the rails and properly lubricated the pistol. But 2 hour drive to the Fedex hub. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. Thanks for the replies guys and gals. In the latest lawsuit, plaintiffs allege that the newer-version of the P320 can also discharge when dropped or struck from certain angles. Sig can burn for all I care. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). I initially thought that i had an extractor issue because i was getting FTE with some white box and otherRN, and FMJ ammo.. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. Sigs are crap! The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. I've heard a couple of cases of this. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. Now before anyone starts with the questions lets answer the common ones. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The Glock fails on both counts. (It wasnt my gun). How close is your load to getting into the rifling? The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. Left 2 weeks ago and received and email this mourning that it's on its way back to me. Give me a break. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! Great job, this threat needed some levity! My buddy took 1st place in the Delmarva championship with the X5 in CO. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. No problems there. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. I know I'm reviving an old thread here as well. The sear cams it back a teeny bit. I'm not sure how long it is really going to take. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. Zimmerman said he is confident his plaintiffs will prevail in the lawsuit filed this week. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. LOL! If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. I'll give it a chance to redeeme itself and see how that works out. The gun ran fine with brass, but as soon as I loaded her up with Tulammo, it began to choke bad again. Right. Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? Newington-based Sig Sauer is facing a new legal complaint from 20 individuals, including law enforcement officers and military veterans, who claim they were injured when the companys pistols fired without a trigger pull. Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? Before the guide rod/spring change we were having a lot of stove pipes. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. Still no issues except an occasional FTF as I play with ammo loads and seating depths. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. I have had some self induced issues with feel since trying to go full length guide rod, 15# 1911 spring and Apex trigger. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. "The P320 meets and exceeds all U.S. standards for safety, including the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute, Inc. (SAAMI), as. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. Yes (7) Inspected the extractor? Changing the extractor & extractor spring (recommended fix) seems to have solved the problem. It has not yet responded to the latest legal filing, and didnt respond to a request for comment. Sig . SHORTBUS- As stated, used all of the other calibers and kits with both FCUs. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. But on 2to3 lbs of that so far. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. Really? Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. The fact that it happened to you three times with the same ammo eliminates the gun as the variable, and makes it the ammo. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. Thanks to all for the advice. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Pasted as rich text. Was it his fault? Six of those suits were brought by people serving in law enforcement when the gun fired. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. From what I can tell, it has all the GEN II upgrades. It was a huge issue at one point because the company who they outsourced the extractor to went cheap. Paste as plain text instead, Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer Just ordered all new parts from Top Gun Supply. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. The most common problems with the SIG P320 AXG Scorpion are FTF issues, ejection and extractor problems, slide rattle issues and RSA issues. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts.