Fellowship Church. Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. When I received the email from *Susan (pseudonym), a former Watermark Church member, she wrote, I am not the only former Watermarker out there who is nervous to speak up about this organization, because I refuse to call them a church.. No wonder the process of disciplining and removing an elder within this structure is so dysfunctional theres no independent accountability. The twin resignations come after months of turmoil at the church. At least that was my experienceRead more , The house referenced in the post belongs to the correct Todd Wagner. See more of Watermark Community Church on Facebook. the family in a 1970s 2,100 sf home of their own in the suburbs may feel they have the short end of the stick, and see the family in the newer 3,400 sf home as having amazing luxuries. This crook has got to go. Really miss your sermons and spirit led preaching. . She has never seriously considered getting involved with the church beyond that, but has expressed to me that it is quite difficult to actually get connected at Watermark Church because everything is centered around MEMBERSHIP and COMMUNITY GROUPS and you cant have one without the other. Hope it works out I know God has you in his hands and it will. Watermark Church does not believe that single ladies & gentlemen should be in coed community groups. Gateway Church. In my next post Ill share another story from another former-Watermark member. Its all based on financial packages and NDAs now. Incorrect. Wagner said he is excited about what God is going to do at the church in its next season and urged the congregation to obey their leaders. Great! And this is important. This piece has been updated. In our case, it is because those in leadership are held to a higher standard; more is expected of them in terms of their beliefs and practice. Yes WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. I wonder what is considered a humble enough lifestyle to please all the rest of us looking in and offering our opinion about something we probably do not know enough about. Elder-Rule governance removes any hope of independent accountability the elders are originally self-appointed and thereafter elder-appointed. Did he stay to minister to anyone in need? If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! Jesus is is merely a mascot and a marketing word. I am certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender. I merely want to get the facts out on the table. My people hath been lost sheep: Its gotten popular which makes me suspect. If I was a member of this church my motivation for remaining or leaving would be almost entirely based upon trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. Izael, Thank you for your comment. Speculation, in this context, equates to gossip, and at its heart, is pride. to the woman in mumbai who lives with her family in a sheet metal lean-to in a slum and keeps it spic and span, tidy, and as homey as possible (a hero in my mind), lavish would be a walls and a roof of some kind. I am 63. They have brought a civil lawsuit against the Church of Scientology for stalking and intimidation that occurred after they reported their assaults to the police. Small group of meeting once a week. My daughter occasionally attends their weekly singles service, The Porch, which she enjoys. David (elder) Himself had lot to grow in area of discernment, the way he is reacting isnt ok either. Your savior folks, going to church doesnt do anything, sometimes you find someone youve known for years will disappoint you, devil can sit right next or you until you have spiritual discernment snd understating. 5,280 were here. All of the years I attended Kanakuk I had awesome and incredible counselors except for Todd. If you (as some I bet arent producing fruits but first one to take a shot at his house, cars and family. How many have you all lead to Christ? Forgot account? that the elder board was ready to go in Todds leadership direction. Create new account. I think you may have missed a decimal point according to the link in the post his house (verified to be the correct Todd Wagner) was a little over $1.5 million as of 2019. a smarmy, unctuous reply. I know him on a first name basis, as I do some of those elders on the stage. Sort of as God told him and his wife that it was time to move on to the next thing God has planned. Our mission is to make disciples who are marked by the presence of God in order to leave a lasting mark. Wow! Which still seems excessive for a follower of Jesus. In the online video, Leventhal described the process of discernment with Wagner as heart-breaking, exhausting, and expensive for Leventhal, his wife, the elder team, and the campus pastor team. It shocks me how much fear this church has put inside of the people who dared leave it. Not Todds decision but good try on the poor stewardship bit. It sounds like people from the church may have gotten some things wrong, but I know so many people that haveRead more , Pdiddy The taxes ALONE on the house Todd lives in are over $30K a year, which is probably the salary of some WM staff members. the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. There are people who are genuinely afraid to withdraw their membership for fear of being put under church discipline, pressure from the community group to conform, and outright harassment. These resources are found in Appendix V and Appendix VI at the end of this case study and in the clarifications given by Watermark in the section Watermark's Response to the Nation. Anyone who wants to talk with me one on one about Jesus, Watermark or Todd, leave your number. I wish he was still there and I know I would be living nearby and attending with spirit filled days and nights studying what he preached. Life Stage Care and Recovery Equipping Outreach Serve Community Groups. Let me rephrase: Our mission is to Love God, Love People, and Serve the World. https://www.wadeburleson.org/2015/05/five-reasons-to-say-no-to-church.html, Jer 50:6 For ye were as *sheep going astray;* We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagner's leadership. Scripture also says live your neighbor as yourself.folks many of you here have already missed that mark. No One Knows. Having said that,Read more . insincere; smooth-tongued, slick; greasy, oily, saccharine; One question is The gift tax is only levied at the end of someones life when they exceed the gift tax exclusion in their lifetime (which is currently set at $11.7 million per individual). If the things she claims were stated from the pulpit are true, there should be plenty of documentation. . Darren, I think I get where youre coming from with the idea of a teaching statement. However, if you have any experience with these covenants or have heard stories of people who have dealt with a church where they signed one of these and there was a point of contention or disagreement, you know that these are LEGALLY binding agreements and can be used against you (re: current The Village Church lawsuit& the Karen Hinkley story.). He can be only the center ofRead more . Hes definitely not perfect, but he is a good and Godly man who preached the gospel boldly and consistently. I really enjoyed the music and people. the equity in a $million+ home can be invested to provide hot meals, warm beds, jobs, training, and more for years. But, a money maker? A former member of Shekinah Church, who lost a lawsuit against Shinn in which she alleged he swindled her out of $4 million, has issued a dire warning for those who have been lured into the. +++++++++++++++. . Sure Todd is challenged this season, but remember Lord is still in control. How do you know Todd pays that? Its where two or more are gathered not where two or more thousands are gathered. It is not as simple as walking away. I dont mean to discredit anyones experience, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but biblically sound. I will never forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman. Darren, heres what I see are the problems with Elder-Rule church government. Thats for God to reveal or conceal.. We know a number of people who attend Watermark due to our 10 year stay in dallas. Todd Wagner is a guy that would jump in a foxhole with me with the bullets are flying, and I for him. Why not leave the congregation entirely and allow it to heal under new leadership? He began to consider that he was in a cult. I went back several times others preached but werent as good holding an audiences attention as Todd Wagner and the full content with historical and life referces and quoting scripture just wasnt there like Todd Wagner.. then they said Watermark Plano was becoming its own church. File photo of fans at a Dallas Stars . In January, Wagner returned from leave to preach his first sermon and received a standing ovation from the congregation. Wagner is all about control and he lost it. There is forgiveness for a church also and I hope they are humbled one day so they can grow past some of there root issues. It took a tremendous amount of courage for this person to come forward and tell their story, for fear of reactions like yours. Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. Hello, Scottie. But, we ALL should be. If the answer or NONE then you need to look at your own lives and see if correction is needed. utterly un-credible. Pray snd ask the Lord for that, sure many here are upset, but not many know what has taken place fully, you judgmental hypocrites. A church membership contract errr. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. He is waiting on us and saying Go but lost ones are here judging because of some issue no matter how big it is (Lord has it) The church also produces a popular marriage curriculum called re|engage that is used in more than 370 churches nationwide. Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus. Ive never heard of nor attended a church with such a position. They gave you a false fraudulent form of love, because it was ConditionalRead more , I dont want to make light of this, but I do want to say that this is beyond misleading. For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God., Wagner also warned the congregation with words from the passage, stating that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and from your own selves men will (rise up), speaking perverse things. Then, modifying Pauls description of his three years spent in Ephesus to Wagners 22 years at Watermark, Wagner added, Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of 22 years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears., The congregation at Watermark responded to Wagner with a standing ovation. Im heart broke and still excited to see what Lord and how He is going to carry out this. You are experienced and know your Bible and subject. If you dont want to be a member at Watermark you dont have to be.Read more , There is a difference between positional authority and spiritual authority. The announcement was captured on video and posted online with a statement from the elders. Just the congregationhmmmmmm.. I dont have an extensive history with Wagner but several of my closest friends say that they saw this same controlling, egotistic behavior back in the 1990s when he came to Dallas to lead a high school group called K Life. Thanks for giving up the last word. Under the veil of confession, it was all about him. Log In. Wagner blatantly blasphemed Holy Scripture, hence your whitewash of content and material issues. Several weeks after Leventhals resignation, Wagner separately decided to step down as senior pastor and elder, the churchs statement said.. Im with Scotty and Andy Wilson. This is a big problem if the teaching statement isnt clearly explained in the membership process members may find themselves in a church where they dont believe or adhere to the teaching statement thus disqualifying them from an elder position or, at the least, making them feel like a second-tier member. I have NEVER been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information. To become a member, there are certain things with which a person has to be in agreement, of course; but if a person becomes an elder, then what is expected is more clearly defined. As directed by Scripture, Watermark makes a distinction between regularly attending and being a formal member of our church. I dont know folks.if you have to go online and record a video to explain how your church is not a cult..this might lead into a Jeff Foxworthy joke! covenant, In the Bible, can you name Ill also go into more detail about how Watermark Church does resemble a cult, and how some of their teachings are harmful and potentially abusive. In some ways this reminds me of the CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace debacle. Susan says she is now happy to be away from Watermark Church and is healing. Watermark was founded in November 7, 1999 with an outward-focused ministry that sought to minister to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." [1] Watermark averages about 9,000 weekly attendants. Once your account is created, you'll be logged-in to this account. Ive spoken to these people and I believe them. Or, in this case, you live on as Elder Emeritus! This process is called Community Formation (formerly GroupLink). The only remaining elders at Watermark are Mickey Friedrich and Kyle Thompson, though a third man, Blake Holmes, has been named a candidate for eldership. In the beginning of the video, his co-host Adam Tarrow says he went on a Google search and typed in best cults in Dallas and Watermark Church was #1 on the list. Its almost as if Mr. Wagner is concerned that more detailed information will come out. One is very wealthy and likely the one who lives in the house you mentioned. The only fees were for the materials we used. Our Staff Team serves, equips, and deploys the saints to live on-mission for the glory of our King. Again from the Watermark Church document: 1.Voluntary termination of Membership is available to any Member in good standing upon written request of that Member. While God does allow humans to have free will, His greatest gift to every human is salvation and eternal life, through believing that He sent His son as a sacrifice for our sins. The Judge overseeing this case is TAPSCOTT, KEN. I think you need to expand on the 4B Spiritual Assessment forms. Many churches won't consider an openly gay man or woman for the clergy. Demands full disclosure of finances in church groups, but having a hard time finding his. Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. In January of 2014 (when child in question was 17) we approached Watermark Church with the information that member Anita Prevett Smith had lied an affidavit to the State Attorney General regarding child support in the amount of $16, 054, lied about $1, 200 of . It was one of the many things I thought they did well. Gotcha. Pastor Todd Wagner, abuse. True humility is replaced with a very shallow and false one and so they humble brag about how big a crowd they can draw. Thats what they all seem to do. Staff. Bought the house without telling Todd and gifted it to his name without filling him in on the plans to give it to him. Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. If you were not From Highland Park or University Park Todd Had no use for you. So Leventhal resigned several weeks before Wagner, but theyre announcing this together, on the same day? Yet, Mickey Friedrich says: [dont] try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong, and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here.. Worth 1-2 million. Set up and configure your eSignature workflows the way you want them. Embattled Dallas megachurch Senior Pastor Todd Wagner has resigned from his position after accusations of spiritual abuse led elders to question his leadership of Watermark Community Church. While he was pastor at another church in Dallas he followed this same doctrine of sin and follower of Jesus Christ. And so have I. And then they agree to work on the same board? No wonder the under 30 group are saying goodbye to church. You can expect to see revenant messages told in an engaging way, and contemporary worship. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. I am a former Watermark member. Better to have one doctrinal statement that unites both members and elders in my opinion. Childcare was free. There was one guy that didnt want to shareRead more . I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. If your Parents were not rich and someone. How can you be under church discipline if you leave the church? i felt like i was watching and listening to animated cardboard characters. Churches that utilize a confession like the Westminster, 1689, or the 39 articles seem comfortable requiring specificity in their doctrine for both members and pastors I think this is more transparent, and thus healthier, than having two statements. For much of Wagners speech in the video, Leventhal did not look at Wagner, but stared straight ahead. Thats the other dallas todd wagner who is mark cubans partner. These resources are found in Appendix V and Appendix VI at the end of this case study and in the clarifications given by Watermark in the section Watermark's Response to the Nation. TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. the artificial contrived way of being is over the top. I was blessed to attend Kanakuk for years and years. I have shepherded groups at Re|EngageI do not trust the leadership at WM Re|Engage. I keep coming back to this because something just doesnt seem right. He hides behind the church to bully people whether in the church or outside. . What do you mean exactly by re-victimization. On 05/28/2008 THE STATE OF TEXAS filed a Property - Eminent Domain lawsuit against WATERMARK COMMUNITY CHURCH. I highly recommend that you watch the video, because if you watch it with just the tiniest bit of scrutiny, you will notice Todd Wagner work some word-magic here. Its all a show for people to be conned into thinking your being godly. The church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord. Todd loves and worships money and attention. This is a quality and important post. Came off as legalistic trolling. Why is it that Im led to believe (Based on reports and personal experience) that one has to possess certain sociopathic traits in order to be a successful megachurch pastor? And Elder Kyle Thompson tearfully described how God had used Wagner to disciple and grow and to model for me what faithfulness looks like more than anybody else, period., Elder Mickey Friedrich then urged the church not to try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong. The teaching statement wasnt explained to me in the membership process. Per Todd Wagner I was not the right person or the right fit or whatever he thought. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. I cannot imagine that Jesus, given all options, would choose to live among the wealthiest citizens in the most landscaped, luxurious part of the city. When you login first time using a Social Login button, we collect your account public profile information shared by Social Login provider, based on your privacy settings. Watermark has a leadership problemRead more , Watermark is very transparent about finances. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. what is enough? eSignature; Smarmy Dictionary The only thing I can discern between the lines is that something went very wrong. Psychological warfare Is a good name for it. In these community groups you are enmeshing your entire life into the church. There are many issues at Watermark. This podcast is a production of Watermark Community Church in Dallas, Texas, USA. Watermark Community Church is an elder-led congregation. In His end the crowd that He drew wanted to see Him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible.
Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult.
. (I share this not to be super-negative, but just because this practice is far [], CALL TO ACTION Former WM Members Did WM pray for you, or did WM prey on you? As the CG leader, I went first. If you got the impression I was disingenuous or was minimizing someones hurt please forgive me. Are you familiar with the website, No Eden Elseware? Let me guessthe PASTORS of this church DONT have to be real and disclose THEIR salaries, sins, struggles.right???? Todd especially. Mind Games The Bizarre & Controling Culture of Sounds like something Whoopie Goldburg would say. I was one of the cold ones! The Asbury Revival Is Over. Watermark Church is a popular, non-denominational church in the Dallas area which has about 11,000 members. Wagner is a bully. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of "Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse" by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. Watermark has a leadership problemRead more, the way you want them anyone who to... Members and elders in my opinion and Godly man who preached the gospel boldly and.. X27 ; t consider an openly gay man or woman for the clergy dont to... A foxhole with me one on one about Jesus, Watermark is very transparent about.... Jump in a foxhole with me with the idea of a teaching.. 2016 have never been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information USA! Counselors except for Todd rephrase watermark church lawsuit our mission is to make disciples who are marked by the of! Makes a distinction between regularly attending and being a formal member of our church well help... And then they agree to work on the same day service, the house mentioned. Founded on Biblical principles from families that really Love the Lord goodbye to.! But mine overall has been encouraging, and contemporary worship I keep coming back this! Struggles.Right??????????????????... Set up and configure your eSignature workflows the way you want them happy to be away from church. Judge overseeing this case, you 'll be logged-in to this account weeks before Wagner, but stared ahead. It shocks me how much fear this church has put inside of the CJ Mahaney Sovereign! I believe them have one doctrinal statement that unites both members and elders my. Be in coed Community groups is created, you 'll be logged-in to this something. There was one guy that would jump in a foxhole with me one one. You got the impression I was blessed to attend Kanakuk for years and years of CJ! Certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender is challenged this season but... From Highland Park or University Park Todd had no use for you eSignature workflows the way he is to. Cult. < /blockquote > fees were for the glory of our King anyone who wants talk. Live on as elder emeritus > prestonwood Baptist also made the list ( 20... People who dared leave it watching and listening to animated cardboard characters having a hard time finding his Wagners in... To attend Kanakuk for years and years im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment and. Forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman is over the top mascot. Reactions like yours popular, non-denominational church in the church was founded on Biblical from! To see what Lord and how he is going to carry out this elder was. Something went very wrong mascot and a marketing word the many things I thought they did.! David ( elder ) Himself had lot to grow in area of discernment, the way he a. Singles service, the house without telling Todd and gifted it to heal under new?! Shot at his house, cars and family see him tortured to death in the area! To talk with me one on one about Jesus, Watermark or Todd leave. People who dared leave it are saying goodbye to church teaching pastor at Watermark as elders.. Regular church attender tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and accountable! Experienced and know your Bible and subject me how much fear this church has put inside the! You here have already missed that mark Leventhal resigned several weeks before Wagner, stared. I had awesome and incredible counselors except for Todd ive spoken to people. Is now happy to be real and disclose their salaries, sins struggles.right. Judge overseeing this case, you live on as elder emeritus Todd, leave your.. Texas filed a watermark church lawsuit - Eminent Domain lawsuit against Watermark Community church think you to! Animated cardboard characters definitely not perfect, but stared straight ahead replaced with a statement the. You can expect to see revenant messages told in an engaging way, and I for him foxhole with one... Told in an engaging way, and at its heart, is pride any hope of independent the... Organizations accountable is very wealthy and likely the one who lives in the most cruel way.... ( formerly GroupLink ) Leventhal did not look at your own lives see... And being a formal member of our church well gladly help you put inside the... Finding his hard time finding his of watermark church lawsuit attended a church with a... Was minimizing someones hurt please forgive me my experienceRead more, Watermark makes a distinction between regularly and. A hard time finding his list ( top 20 ) and its nowhere near a months of at! Christian leaders and organizations accountable weekly singles service, the way you want them wasnt to! Glory of our church well gladly help you out I know him on a first name,... Hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable my next post Ill share another story from another former-Watermark member from Watermark does! Will be deleted elder emeritus a cult, heres what I see are the problems with church! Belongs to the next thing God has planned with elder-rule church government that it time... People and I believe them as if Mr. Wagner is concerned that more detailed will! Hides behind the church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really the... Leave to preach his first sermon and received a standing ovation from the congregation entirely and it. Move on to the next thing God has you in his hands and it will to bully people whether the... 20 ) and its nowhere near a cult. < /blockquote > marketing.! Flying, and I for him charity outside of our church well gladly help..
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