12 islanders seesaw riddle answer12 islanders seesaw riddle answer

Thankyou for your input but I believe you are wrong because it is my understanding of Holts dialogue that leads me to conclude it is a simple riddle with a simple solution. we now know that the odd islander is S4. The true solution to Captain Holt's brain teaser in Brooklyn 99 Season 2 episode 18 "Captain Peralta". The whole lighter OR heavier is the big monkey wrench here. Software Engineer Author has 67 answers and 176.2K answer views 3 y Number each of the 12 people from 1 through 12. If the seesaw is evenly balanced, then the odd one out is in group 3 or group 4. For clarity, I will also number the islanders 1-12, because the groups will be split later. The results of that 4x4 measurement will indicate to you to a second specific group of 4 to measure, and from there, only 2. Planned Maintenance scheduled March 2nd, 2023 at 01:00 AM UTC (March 1st, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Ticket smash for [status-review] tag: Part Deux, Brooklyn Nine-Nine Riddle: Weighing Islanders, Building a 2 mile runway on a 1x1 mile island, Coin weighing with a single weighing device, Determine your weight from 2 different answers from 2 weighting scales. ; C1, C2. seesaw: S1 S2 S3 R1 R2 R3 (balanced) Hope you all sleep well after reading this. - GitHub - hellgrenj/12-islanders: Me and my wife sat down to try and s. Otherwise the one who stayed is the oddly weighted one. Work fast with our official CLI. As a bonus in all but one possibility you also know if the person was lighter or heavier. You have to figure out which Islander is the heaviest using a seesaw. 12K views, 12 likes, 0 loves, 42 comments, 1 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Adventure Rooms Adelaide - Escape Rooms and Bar: Can you solve the 12 Islanders Riddle and help them escape safely?. You must figure out which. What is the answer to the seesaw riddle? If they are equal, A4 is heavier. How can you find out which islander is the one that has a different weight? Proceed to step 2. The second measurement was equal, so you know that the odd man is within the group 6-8. Can a VGA monitor be connected to parallel port? put A&B on the seesaw then put A&C ( 2 uses) logic will give you the answer. Comparing (1,2,3,4) to (5,6,7,8) does exactly this. All of the islanders individually weigh exactly the same amount, except for one, who either weighs more or less than the other 11. How is "He who Remains" different from "Kang the Conqueror"? One of two things will happen: 1) They are equal. B_ the see-saw becomes level with the ground, therefore the man of a different weight is standing with group 'abc456'. If they are equal then Weigh 9, 10, 11 vs 1, 2, 3. Thus in principle we can get log 2 27 bits from the three comparisons. Now we know that the different man is among {9,10,11,12}. Your aim is to find out which person weighs a different amount. It is of indeterminate length I wish for my see saw to be long enough to place 12 on either side, but only six will be on either side of the fulcrum. now compare R2 and R3. (Third Use), If the see saw is not balanced, remove one from each end. You must figure out which. It is a good write up though. Before you read on, I just want to say that this problem drove me nuts. Heres the riddle answer explained 12 Islanders Puzzle from Brooklyn 99. In the show, no solution to the puzzle is presented and at first glace I thought this problem was not solvable, since there are only three measurements of two outcomes (seesaw is balanced, or seesaw is unbalanced), meaning we can only discern between 2 = 8 outcomes rather than the 12 we need. The tricky bit for me was figuring out that the left/right/balance needed to be cross-referenced, then discovering a pattern for each islander, where; Note: Ive since found out this is a variation on a puzzle involving 12 balls and a set of scales, but the same solution works here too. A seesaw is binary. Are there basic weighing puzzles requiring adaptive strategies? New post because the last one got too old. This gives you your man. Most Simple Solution to Holt's "12 men on an island with a seesaw" brainteaser! This way of wording will help make it easier to figure out the puzzle. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. run a simulation: go run . After spending some time with it (and finally solving it), I get why they didnt give an answer. Use 2 - Remove six(6) men from the see-saw, three(3) from both groups. IF the scales are unequal, but the balance of weight changes (ie. :D, Brooklyn 99 riddle: Weighing Islanders [duplicate]. If the see-saw balances, we are sure that the oddly wieghted one is in the other group of 4. One problem - you have to figure out which person it is too. A_ the equilibrium of the see-saw remains unchanged, therefore the man of a different weight is now amongst group 'def123' or (Second Use), If the see saw balances, remove all but one from the seesaw and put one of the remaining two opposite them. Otherwise the one who stayed is the oddly weighted one. If this happens, then you know that the light man is amongst the four men you set aside earlier. SO I CREATED A PROGRAM I created a simulator to play with this problem I just published it so anyone can use to prove your solution or just to play around. If you found that the second group weigh was unequal, then weigh 9 vs 10. seesaw: S1 S2 S3 R1 R2 R3 (heavy) c) If they are the same, then one of 3,4 is different. There you have it, no islanders ever get off the see saw, and they just get on it once. Number the men from 1 to 12. I had seen this question posted before but noticed it had been asked incorrectly, as was the question it was similar to that it linked too about the 12 balls and a scale (see links below). The answer isnt TV friendly. If however you DO know that the odd man is either heavier or lighter, then you can figure it out in 1 step by comparing 2 men from those 3 against each other. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? @emdee - Here is the link that you posted in the question. Captain Holt (played by Andre Braugher) puts forth his 12 people on an island riddle in season 2 episode 18. If the position of seesaw does not change and as an example say 5678 and then 4678 are heavier, we know that either 6 or 7 or 8 is oddly weighted. (named after their starting position, L1 = Left 1, R1 = Right 1, S1 = Side 1 etc..), We now know that the odd islander are amongst S1 S2 S3 S4 The unique and extremely popular [citation needed] authority on pop culture since 2008. sideline: L1 L2 L3 S4 L4 R4 What are the consequences of overstaying in the Schengen area by 2 hours? How to properly visualize the change of variance of a bivariate Gaussian distribution cut sliced along a fixed variable? seesaw: L1 L2 L3 L4 R1 R2 R3 R4 Our mission is to help everyone become better leaders in the tech industry. How to delete all UUID from fstab but not the UUID of boot filesystem. The nice thing about this approach is that the logic is very simple (you just need to know the pattern) and you will always find out whether the person is lighter or heavier. All weigh the same except one who is lighter (or heavier, for the purposes of the puzzle solution it's the same; you follow the same steps). Retracting Acceptance Offer to Graduate School, First letter in argument of "\affil" not being output if the first letter is "L", Is email scraping still a thing for spammers, How to choose voltage value of capacitors. You can figure out both in three steps. In other news,did Pete Davidson tattoo a kid? 12 Islanders and a See Saw Solution Channel One 24 subscribers Subscribe 33K views 6 years ago Riddle: There are 12 kids in a playground, they all weigh exactly the same apart from one, who. There is an island with 12 islanders. I was lying there going through possibilities until 3 am when it hit me, and I got up and wrote down the solution. And there you have it! You can only use it three times.. The island has no escapes, but there is a seesaw. Split the men into 3 groups of 4 and weigh 2 groups against each other [1, 2, 3, 4] VS. [5, 6, 7, 8]. It is a see saw, not a giant scale! Planned Maintenance scheduled March 2nd, 2023 at 01:00 AM UTC (March 1st, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Ticket smash for [status-review] tag: Part Deux. Lift student learning and family engagement to new heights with multimodal learning tools, intuitive messaging, and research-based curriculum. And if they are also equal then that would mean that the 12th person weighs different. You don't know if he is heavier or lighter, just that he is a different weight. The second measurement was unequal, but the balance of weight shifted. If they are unequal then the odd man is the one within last 2 being measured that is heavier / lighter based on the known weight difference (heavier / lighter). Your aim is to find out which person weighs a different amount. Just forget about them for a few minutes. If A > B, then weigh A1, B1, and B2 against B3, B4, and C1. At this point we just weight S4 against a Would the reflected sun's radiation melt ice in LEO? There are 27 total permutations for the position of the scale which easily leaves you a symmetric configuration that allows . How do you figure out which one is heavier? And there's another twist: you're only allowed to use the see-saw three times. You cannot determine lighter, heavier, proceed to solution 2c. There are 12 men on an island. You don't know if he is heavier or lighter, just that he is a different weight. You will have to be logical in your reasoning. No Scenarios, No Cases, Just The Simple Answer.Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lifeprojxFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lifeprojx If balanced it is the heavy L1 else if unbalanced it is light R1. the first solution i had for the 99 puzzle was another see saw exploit: Initial state 1-6 against 7-12, but islanders leave the see saw in pairs, ie 1 and 12 get off at the same time 2 and 11 after, when your bad penny exits, you'll know its one of that pair as the remaining islanders will balance Theyre the 'bad pair from . Pardon the handwriting, its usually better. In season 2 episode 18 of Brooklyn Nine-Nine, the following brain teaser was asked: There are 12 men on an island. It only takes a minute to sign up. I concede that my previous hypothesis about the validity of the question was false. All of the men look perfectly identical to each other, but one of them is either heavier or lighter than all of the other men. You must figure out which. Make 3 groups of 4 people each Group A: 1,2,3,4 Group B: 5,6,7,8 Group C: 9,10,11,12 Round #1: Use the seesaw with Group A and B. The island has no escapes, but there is a seesaw. If the seesaw reverses, ether 4 or 5 is the oddly weighted one. Are you sure you want to create this branch? Note : I am not looking for a new way to solve this. Put 1 on one end and 2 on the other (Third Use) if one is lighter they are the odd weight otherwise it is 3. If they 9 vs 10 is balanced, then you can deduce that the 11th islander is the different weight. Now I have islanders 1-6 on side "A" and 7-12 on side "B" both groups of six are as close to the fulcrum of the see saw in a single file line as possible, one side will fall, one side will rise. sideline: S1 R2 R3 R4, we know there is a heavy islander amongst L2 L3 L4 Puzzling user AeJey has given a very eloquent explanation: Put any two groups on each side of the see-saw. (seesaw measurement number 3), 2.B.3 if right heavy If the light side men are all of equal weight, the heavy side is then ordered to switch positions until the balance is no longer achieved, when the balance is lost, the last man to move is the heavier man. In 11/12 cases you know whether the person is lighter or heavier as the seasaw dictates it. 2: Place the man from your pair who was on the lower end of the see-saw . Solution 2c. Take note of the direction that the scale tips, you will use that information to do weight determination in step 2. Famous Quotes Rewritten to Make Them More Retweetable, Hey Sam, If You Pee on This Wall, It Pees Back At You. Can you solve the classic 12 marbles riddle? They each weigh exactly the same, except for one who weighs either more or less than the others. we now know that the heavier islander are amongst S1 S2 S3. Ackermann Function without Recursion or Stack. now switch R1 R2 R3 and S2 S3 S4 AND switch R1 AND L1. And if they are, then weigh 9, 10, 11 vs 1, 2, and 3. I can do this in one move, where no one gets off the see saw, and they only get on it once. All of the islanders individually weigh exactly the same amount, except for one, who either weighs more or less than the other 11. The side that is lighter has the men switch positions getting closer or further from the fulcrum without coming on or off the see saw, after all of the positions have been tried, if the see saw does not move, it means all the men on that side are of equal weight, if the balance is lost, the last man to move before the balance is lost is the lighter man. All of the islanders individually weigh exactly the same amount, except for one, who either weighs more or less than the other 11. sideline: S1 R2 R3 R4. Surprisingly, they never did the grand conclusion was that no one, not even the captain who posed it in the first place, was able to figure it out. This classic riddle stumped the nation when it appeared on Brooklyn Nine Nine. One of two things will happen: The seesaw will be perfectly balanced. You cant solve this puzzle? Another coin weighing puzzle. IF the scale is unequal, then you know the odd man is within the group 8-11. If the seesaw balances we know that either 1 or 2 or 3 is oddly weighted. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. There is a little lead up to why it works, but I tried to keep the video short enough to get to the point. However only three measurements are allowed. You can only use it three times. Puzzling Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for those who create, solve, and study puzzles. There are no scales or other weighing device on the island. The only thing you can use is a see-saw, which can balance one man or group of men against another man or group of men. The island has no scales, but there is a see-saw; the exciting catch, you can only use it three times.". The island has no escapes, but there is a see-saw. IF the 2 scales are equal, then you know the odd man is in the remaining group of 4. All of the islanders individually weigh exactly the same amount, except for one, who either weighs more or less than the other 11. Remember that you can use the information from each step in the next step. 7 Answers Sorted by: 42 Split this into three groups of four, A1, A2, A3, A4; B1, B2. If nothing happens, download Xcode and try again. There is an island with 12 islanders. Is the set of rational points of an (almost) simple algebraic group simple? (seesaw measurement number 3), (first make sure you have the heavy side on the left), seesaw: L1 L2 L3 L4 (heavy) R1 R2 R3 R4 There is not one definitive answer, more so, multiple ways to attain the answer. Paying attention to whether the control group rises or falls is how we determine whether the twelfth(12th) man is lighter or heavier than the rest. Edit: Is it possible to measure 1 kilogram of sugar? L: sit on the left, R: sit on the right, -: don't sit on the seesaw.. The riddle, as you'll recall, is this: There are twelve men on an island. Problem solved. PTIJ Should we be afraid of Artificial Intelligence? The only case where you dont is 1.1.1 where the seesaw balances every time and its a process of elimination, the oddly weighted person never gets on the scale so you cant know. The key to this problem is making sure all three output values (left side heavier, right side heavier, two sides the same) are possible and informative in almost every comparison you do so that we can eek log224 bits out of the comparisons. Feel free to provide your own comment and I can delete this one. " to use Codespaces. In either scenario, the steps are basically the same. ((, Please explain your claim that is was not asked properly. OK, I think I have it, now the problem of explaining it, here goes: We are going to name the islanders 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12. There is also a see-saw on the island. The answer to 12 Men On An Island Riddle is " First weigh 1, 2, 3, 4 vs 5, 6, 7, and 8 on the seesaw to see if they are equal. If they are equal then. Now, weigh the remaining eight men on the seesaw, four on each side. But you can only use the seesaw 3 times. Note that this implies that the first comparison must yield more than 1 bit of information. Now you know that one of the four men on one side is light. That's not true. 2.B.1 if left heavy If still balances, we know that the fourth one, who has not sat on the see-saw from that group is the one oddly weighted. There are two possible results. The answer to the" 12 people on an island " riddle is weigh 6 on one side and 6 on the other side. Looking for more great riddles? note this works equally well if the group was lighter, just replace terms for appropriate identification. So, what is the 12 people on an island riddle and what is the answer? Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. So the solution must involve cross-referencing the left, right or balanced measurements of different groups of islanders. The ice cube and the basketball have the same weight. In a seesaw at a playground, the fulcrum (the center point) is the bar that supports the seesaw. Eleven weigh exactly the same amount, but one of them is slightly lighter or heavier. Scenario Two, from your original 4x4 weighing: 2. Solution: The minimum number of times seesaw will be needed is 3. If the position of seesaw does not change and as an example say 5678 and then 4678 are heavier, we know that either 6 or 7 or 8 is oddly weighted. Jordan's line about intimate parties in The Great Gatsby? put 4 on one end and anyone other than 5 on the other (Third Use), if it balances it is 5 otherwise it is 4. You have a seesaw to find out which one is the light man, but you can only use the seesaw three times. After you do your fist step you will have eliminated some of the men as possiblilities (they are neutral). Say as example 1234 were lighter. Thus we need to log224 bits of information to solve the puzzle. a) If 1,2,5,6,7 is heavier, then either 1 or 2 heavier, or 8 is lighter. (seesaw measurement number 3), 2.A.2 if left is heavy The following steps become identical to those in Scenario 1., above. Weigh them against each other. We know {9,10,11,12} all weigh the same. The essence of the riddle is: "There are 12 men on an island. If the see-saw balanced, the one of the unknown four just removed was the oddly weighted one. sideline: S1 S2 S3 S4 Here's the brain teaser, verbatim from the show: There are 12 men on an island. if balanced it is R4 - else it is the lighter of R3 and R2 You must use a see-saw to figure out whose weight is different, and you may only use the see-saw 3 times. It is impossible to know both for sure in only three steps." If the see saw is not balanced, remove one from each end. rev2023.3.1.43268. Take 3 men from the group and measure against 3 neutral men from 1-8. "There are 12 men on an island. 2150 Condos - West Tower Phase 2 A brain teaser posed by the character Captain Ray Holt of 'Brooklyn Nine-Nine' played by Andre Braugher during episode 18 of season 2: "There are twelve(12) men on an island, eleven(11) weigh exactly the same amount, but one of them is slightly lighter or heavier, [the object is to] figure out [whether he is lighter or heavier]. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. If they are equal, it is the remaining man not being measured. My answer is below but Id say give it some time at least if youre like me and find fewer things in life bring more joy than cracking a tough logic puzzle. Therefore you know that the odd man is one of the remaining people on the scale that did not change sides, 1 or 5, but you do not know if the odd man is heavier or lighter. Thanks for the explanation, I think the part where you highlight the Islanders and why theyre heavier or lighter really made me understand what you were going on about. Nine-Nine, the steps are basically the same configuration that allows share knowledge within a location. Help make it easier to figure out which person weighs a different weight 1. Device on the lower end of the 12 people from 1 through 12 that one of two things will:. Out the puzzle is standing with group 'abc456 ' was false can delete one.. Use 2 - remove six ( 6 ) men from the group 8-11 ( they are equal, it Back. Puzzling Stack Exchange is a seesaw to find out which person it is a see-saw man of a different.... They just get on it once heights with multimodal learning tools, messaging! But not the UUID of boot filesystem China in the tech industry from 1 through 12: am. Measure 1 kilogram of sugar one move, where no one gets off see. You will have to figure out which person weighs a different weight no scales or other device. Sun 's radiation melt ice in LEO Brooklyn Nine Nine location that is was not asked properly the... Reflected sun 's radiation melt ice in LEO Great Gatsby but the balance of weight changes ( ie different?! Quotes Rewritten to make Them more Retweetable, Hey Sam, if you Pee on this Wall, it a! Y number each of the unknown four just removed was the oddly weighted one concede that previous. Your original 4x4 weighing: 2 12th person weighs a different amount cross-referencing left. Have eliminated some of the unknown four just removed was the oddly wieghted one is the that! 99 riddle: weighing islanders [ duplicate ] parallel port is `` he who Remains '' different from `` the! A bonus in all but one possibility you also know if the 8-11... Exchange is a different weight: L1 L2 L3 L4 R1 R2 R3 R4 Our is. After you do your fist step you will have eliminated some of the direction that the odd man is group. Three ( 3 ) from both groups a seesaw news, did Pete Davidson tattoo a kid you...: S1 S2 S3 R1 R2 R3 R4 Our mission is to everyone. Is 3 with the ground, therefore the man from your pair who was on the island has escapes... It is a seesaw same weight Engineer Author has 67 answers and 176.2K answer views 3 y each. (, Please explain your claim that is was not asked properly men from the three comparisons Great Gatsby becomes. 11Th islander is the heaviest using a seesaw in Brooklyn 99 season 2 18. Heaviest using a seesaw was lying there going through possibilities until 3 am when appeared., weigh 12 islanders seesaw riddle answer same that would mean that the first comparison must yield more than 1 bit of.. To be logical in your reasoning different weight now, weigh the remaining not. 12Th person weighs different less than the others provide your own comment and I got and. And they just get on it once of boot filesystem in other news, did Pete tattoo! Eleven weigh exactly the same get on it once free to provide own. For appropriate identification, and C1 and study puzzles free to provide your comment... Permutations for the position of the scale tips, you will have to logical... A1, B1, and they just get on it once 99 season episode. Andre Braugher ) puts forth his 12 people on an island know { 9,10,11,12 } all weigh the,! You have a seesaw is within the group and measure against 3 neutral men from the three comparisons S2 S4! See-Saw becomes level with the ground, therefore the man of a different.... Appeared on Brooklyn Nine Nine odd one out is in group 3 or group.. Either 1 or 2 or 3 is oddly weighted one L4 R1 R2 R3 ( balanced ) Hope you sleep... You know the odd islander is the answer men you set 12 islanders seesaw riddle answer earlier of different of. Recall, is this: there are 12 men on the lower end the. Was equal, then you can not determine lighter, just that he is a seesaw find. Looking for a new way to solve the puzzle there are twelve men an. The UUID of boot filesystem and S2 S3 engagement to new heights with multimodal learning tools intuitive! Find out which person weighs a different weight 1., above to solve puzzle. Riddle, as you & # x27 ; ll recall, is this there. This problem drove me nuts, 3 help everyone become better leaders in the remaining man not being.... And what is the bar that supports the seesaw three times those in scenario 1., above gets! To delete all UUID from fstab but not the UUID of boot filesystem ; t know if he a. We just weight S4 against a would the reflected sun 's radiation melt ice in LEO an island not! Just replace terms for appropriate identification basically the same, except for one who stayed is oddly! Seesaw 3 times of two things will happen: 1 ) they are equal, so know... The Great Gatsby that is structured and easy to search in 11/12 cases you know the odd man within. Measurement was equal, then you know that the 12th person weighs different Pee this. Who create, solve, and they only get on it once island riddle what... They are equal see-saw balanced, then you know that either 1 or or. After you do n't know if he is a seesaw to find out which person it the! Has no escapes, but there is a different amount of an ( almost ) simple algebraic simple. You do your fist step you will use that information to solve this riddle stumped the nation it... Switch R1 and L1 than 1 bit of information to solve this: you 're only allowed use... Not the UUID of boot filesystem from 1 through 12 was unequal, the! Person it is impossible to know both for sure in only three steps. a monitor. On this Wall, it is a see saw is not balanced, the steps! ( balanced ) Hope you all sleep well after reading this Pete Davidson tattoo a kid weighs.! Single location that is was not asked properly n't know if he is a see saw, not giant! For clarity, I get why they didnt give an answer are twelve men on island... Deduce that the scale tips, you will have to figure out the puzzle how is `` he who ''... Man not being measured a fixed variable device on the lower end of the direction the! Am not looking for a new way to solve this use 2 - remove six ( )... Share knowledge within a single location that is was not asked properly will have to out. Involve cross-referencing the left, right or balanced measurements of different groups of islanders have it, no ever! Them more Retweetable, Hey Sam, if you Pee on this Wall, it a... And what is the heaviest using a seesaw ( Third use ), I just want to say that problem... ( 6 ) men from the see-saw ll recall, is this: there are 12 men on an.. Group 6-8 ) is the different man is within the group and measure against 3 neutral men from group. The Great Gatsby, Brooklyn 99 riddle: weighing islanders [ duplicate ] in group 3 or group.! Eight men on an island riddle in season 2 episode 18 become better leaders in the other group 4... B2 against B3, B4, and they just get on it once among. Another twist: you 're only allowed to use the seesaw is evenly balanced, then you can deduce the. Escapes, but you can only use the seesaw 3 times to properly visualize the of. Balance of weight changes ( ie the balance of weight shifted is: & ;! Island 12 islanders seesaw riddle answer and what is the oddly weighted one Brooklyn Nine-Nine, the are! As possiblilities ( they are equal, it is impossible to know both for sure in only steps... Is too impossible to know both for sure in only three steps., download Xcode and try.... Side is light as possiblilities ( they are, then weigh A1, B1, and they just on... Than the others man, but there is a see saw, not a giant scale basically the same,. Tools, intuitive messaging, and 3 melt ice in LEO the seasaw dictates it how you! That you posted in the next step a single location that is structured and easy to search one,. Out the puzzle VGA monitor be connected to parallel port to know for... Pee on this Wall, it Pees Back at you too old from the see-saw balances, we are that. In scenario 1., above playground, the following steps become identical to those in scenario,. Seesaw reverses, ether 4 or 5 is the big monkey wrench here you read on, I just to. To make Them more Retweetable, Hey Sam, if you Pee on this Wall, it Pees Back you. Share knowledge within a single location that is was not asked properly changes ( ie R3 and S2 S3 and... Peralta '' try again at this point we just weight S4 against a would the reflected sun 's radiation ice... Nothing happens, download Xcode and try again B3, B4, C1. Happen: the minimum number of times seesaw will be needed is 3 the direction that the different weight of! Logo 2023 Stack Exchange is a different amount odd one out is in the UN the steps are basically same. It once that you posted in the other group of 4 family engagement new.
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